Honour Killing?

[secret]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8664539.stm

I'm at work so i dont have time to comment yet, but i stumbled across this on the BBC website. Thoughts?

[Kitush]

Hard to comment really until there's other information provided with it. There's nothing to say it was an honour killing (her husband / mother-in-law were released) and the words weren't even stated.

I wouldn't take that leap until more information is provided.

[secret]

... It does say the answer lies within the wider family.

I'm dead suspicious after reading Shame and Daughters of Shame LOL

[Kitush]

Maybe. But you can't make an assumption by reading in between the lines unless it has been stated.

For all you know - there was a feud between the families.
Or maybe she knew something she shouldn't have.

There are other reasons too. No point jumping to an assumption until something further is reported.

[saffron]

  I read this story when it happened last year...it always takes a while before they give the final verdict.

I'd like to think it wasns't an honour killing, but Im afraid everything about this case tells my bones that it probably is...Im sure well have a blog on this from ac sooner or later .

She was alone at home, she had not been married long,independant women working away from home are as vunerable as any other woman,fire is a typical method used in many asian cases for some reason,disguising suicides is also common...if you look at Daughters of Shame and Shame, Jasvinder talks about her sister Robina having set herself on fire,but you have to wonder what or who else was involved due to the domestic violence in her case....or influenced her in any way for such a sad death,clearly she was very unhappy about the lack of support and her marriage,newly married women are very vunerable in my personal opinion, as expectations of brides can be unrealistic.

There are 12 honour killings a year in this country. Thats very high for a so called free choice democracy....many of the murders take years to resolve...cases are kept open even after verdicts as we know from others like Banaz Mahmood, police can continue to learn of links to those murders and others who are still vunerable in those families...

I would rather have a suspicious mind on these matters for this reason, as many many women in particular have their deaths disc
qised as suicides...thrown under train tracks for instance is one I wonder about ..even where suicide notes are left...others include fire setting..many murders like  the surjit Attawal case ...where her body has never been found,  all very unusual situations...Surgit was taken to the punjab and her mother in law and husband arranged to murder her...because she asked for for a divorce.In Indai fire is number one for killing of girls.

This beautiful young woman sounds suspiciosly murdered,as the suicide note and disquise is not accepted by the police.

[chweetgurl]

A distant cousin of mine had comitted 'suicide' as per the police report and family but during the funeral we noticed finger marks around her neck also she had fallen out with her family just couple of days before over boyfriend.
Its quite easy to bribe cops back home and change the whole story of crime.But here they work through fully to prosecute the suspects.
Bt shame an young life is lost for no apparent reason  

Thank you for sharing the story with us  secret.I wish more non asians showed interest in depth in such sensitive issues.

[saffron]

Chweetgurl...oh thats so sad..that you actaully saw marks on her neck! I could cry! You must have been devastated and wondered about the family at the funeral..how could they face what they did to her?
Would anyone have raised what happened about the family view of the boyfriend situation, did people know really what happened... and didn't dare rock the boat... I cant believe it.........

[chweetgurl]

Saffron i didnt see her body in person but through photos my dad had taken both my mum n dad shared same opinion and it was clear in the photo too..
the fan ceiling was way higher then the stool she had climbed through in the scene.My dad wanted to report to higher police department but his friends adviced against it since it would be like bringing out thier dirty linen in public so they wudnt support rather harm us.
There r many similar stories where daughters go missing but never found! many cases which dont even get registered! its an everyday story in India and unfortunately if not parents later its in laws who torture after arriage for dowry...No peace at all for Indian women presssure all side

[saffron]

Yes, I have looked at the issue of dowry not long ago on the net and impact of this on numbers of deaths in India...briefly .

There is a prison in India called Tahir prison ..well a number of them in Delhi and I think elsewhere in India...They have a women's section which is where many of the women are mother in laws who killed their daughter in laws ..reason? Dowry, not good enough ...etc etc..its interestinng the pressure applied by society about mother in law roles...expectations of mother in laws and also the power used by mother in laws to then control and ultimatly feel that they have the right to violence against other women.

I know we we raised to understand that your mother in law would one day have expectations of good

cooking, of obediance,of direction and of the mother in law control of the household..many women have

 fought not to remain in these situations in this country and set up home separatly with their hsbands, but by doing so, many believe

they have suffered and been treated unfairly even here ..in England... by mother in laws for leaving with their sons to set up

 home without them. I applaude the british asian women who have had to sacrifice the the values

expected of them ...to have the life they want with their future families....its not easy I understand for

 many.

[Jasmine]

This is horrible, Im so shocked these kinds of things happen... I just don't understand what would possess someone to do something like that to their child?!

Chweetgurl thats so awful about your cousin. What gets me is how do they justify it in their own minds? How is the honour of the family ruined by a child doing something the parents dont like, such as having a boyfriend who is not approved of by the family, but the honour of the family is not ruined by murder? And in what world is having your child killed better than them being alive and doing things you're not happy about?

[a.c.]

I'm afraid that while I agree with Kit that you can't jump to conclusions, I believe this is an honour killing. I notice they have not specified whose baby she was carrying, although they must know.

Blog post up now, but it doesn't say much more than the BBC have said...

[Kitush]

Fair enough.

Yes honour killings are a big problem anywhere (India / Pakistan / South Asia / UK). Yes there is increased awareness (thank goodness). All I'm trying to say is that everytime we see the report of an Asian woman killed, we can't immediately assume it was an honour killing.

Yes it does look dodgy. Yes she was pregnant. According to the Mirror (oh how my sources have fallen..)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/05/07/killer-faked-death-scene-of-woman-found-strangled-hanged-and-burned-115875-22240329/

her 'suicide note' accused her husband of having an affair and of him making her life a living hell. Given that this note is forged, I doubt they would put that in if it was her husband. In fact, I'd expect the note to say she was having the affair and couldnt live with the guilt anymore. Who knows.

But anyway - I think more realistically it'll be a member of his family who killed her because of her caste and was upset at him for marrying her. So I guess technically it was an honour killing but pointed at the husband.

Again. I do not know the full facts, but I would advise caution in jump to conclusions on stories such as this until the full facts are presented. None of are involved in the Law process of finding these individuals so speculation in all honestly doesn't do much for either the victim, their family or anyone else.

Just my thoughts on this. I don't mean to upset anyone. I just would rather play it cautiously when defining a story.


Also Chweetgirl - I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. That's rather horrible. :-/

[saffron]

Fair point Kit 

[chweetgurl]

Yea unless without proper proof its not right to judge people

[booktalker]

Jasmine said "I just don't understand what would possess someone to do something like that to their child?!" - maybe some of you would be interested in being part of my book reading / commenting group beacuse that is exactly what I'm writing about! Your experiences and thoughts could be really helpful. I'm currently half way through so people could either read it in bits or wait till I've finished and read the whole thing.
Let me know what you think......
B
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