Nihlas Programme on asian network today on disownment and mixed couples

[saffron]

I caught the debate in my car and nearly came off the road!

Id like us all to hear it if possible..if anyone has the time to put a link up on here today...? Im going to try first...here we go...I think Ive got it...please have a listen...note its only on for 7 days.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00tz3k1

Be warned ..there are some serious defenders of the wrong sort... I was just sooo frustrated that I couldn't call them on my mobile at that time as I was due on a visit for work...Uugh...There are some seriously aggressive people out there but just as many muslim/sikh/hindu  mixed couples who are struggling within their own families and communties ...time those hardened people  woke up to the realities of life.

We need to be shouting loud and clear...wherever we have to...Id have called a few of you if Id had the time..


We need to work on a programme of our own....

[a.c.]

You've hit the nail on the head there Saffron.

This is EXACTLY the reason we were saying to BBCAN that we need our own show without the negative voices. What a pity they did not listen.

I will catch the show at home tonight.

[pualabears]

Has anyone concidered approaching Channel 4? 

They are much better at aproaching sensitive/"contraversial" topics and unlike the Beeb are much more willing to take risks in order to get a very relivant point across??

XxX

*PB*

[Dev1975]

PB's right, we'd stand a better chance with CH4 than "Auntie Beeb".  I'll try and have a listen to the show sometime this week, thanks for the link!

[monome]

Sooo gutted i missed this i nearly always listen to nihals show and have texted in a few times, but i was out of the office yesterday and totally missed this. Would have phoned had i known. Ill let you know my opinions once iv listened.

[booktalker]

Just listened to the show - wow - well, that's how it is out there. Good to hear both sides, even if it's so hard to understand that mindset...

[saffron]

bear with the programme..it is the full thing in the afternoon..with songs in between...alot more at the end of the programme.

I think I might have heard Balbir on? Have I got that right? It was great if you were on...

Also ac...Preet sent a message at the end!

Id like to get views on some of the stuanch views and how we address these ..where people havn't been able to on the programme..you never know who is looking through MT after the programme...

[chweetgurl]

Just got into topic.. Will hear in a day or 2...Curious to hear the viewpoints but i know its not going to be nice

[booktalker]

I think Dev's "Rant up Kili" thread is a wonderful description of what people are going through when it comes to these issues, someone who is directly affected by these negative views and who can articulate those feelings so well. What I said there (about the concept of honour and shame, and how it's that which needs to change first of all) I believe is relevant.

There's another new book out on the subject - "The Honor Code" by Kwame Anthony Appiah - blurb below:

Honour emerges at the centre of our modern world in Kwame Anthony Appiah's The Honor Code. Over the last few centuries, new democratic movements have led to the emancipation of women, slaves and the oppressed. What drove these modern changes, Appiah argues, was not imposing legislation from above but harnessing the ancient power of honour from within. He explores the end of the duel in England, the tumultuous struggles over footbinding in nineteenth-century China and the uprising of ordinary people against Atlantic slavery. Finally, he confronts the horrors of "honour killing" in contemporary Pakistan, where rape victims are murdered by their relatives. He argues that honour, used to justify the practice, can also be the most effective weapon against it. Intertwining philosophy and historical narrative, Appiah has created a dramatic work, which demonstrates that honour is the driving force in the struggle against man's inhumanity to man.

[balbir]

hi Safron

Thanks for putting up the link for this, i managed to hear it yesterday.

It was very interesting hearing some of those comments, mixed reviews........ i was kind of surprised as 3 decades later little appears to have changed in peoples views/values.

Those people that rang up and said that they would disown their own children.... obviously don't value what they have got, and its sad that they see their children as someone that has a duty to look after them, over everything else. Its as if it is their right!

Sorry it was not me on the show........ if i had known it was on i would certainly have called and given the JJ something to think about.

What did others think?
Balbir

[Dev1975]

Currently listening to this on iPlayer, though not sure how long for as my laptop battery is dying...have to say that Ishmael is a total and utter bell-end!  What scares me is that his genes are now in the gene pool...where's the bleach when you need it?!?  Sophia (I think it was her...?) was right on the money when she said that individuality seems to be repressed within Asian culture, I can certainly vouch for that.  It's taken me bloody ages but now I finally feel like I can just about be myself and express myself in my own way, despite a few bumps on the way.

Sometimes it makes me proud to be Asian..... 

[saffron]

BookTalker..yes absolutly...the analysis behind all these attitudes is shame and honour..the power of this  can be explained by some comments from women through some training that I have heard...

'Izzat is like an everyday thing, ie the weather,  forever present...not questioned, its just there...'

 context... that Izzat is the honour of the family...  I believe its used to' control' by the males often in the family....but often carried out by the woman to protect the izzat of the family...

If you decide not to think about Izzat...and do what you believe to be right..you are not only challenging this system of values...but often not safe when you step away from them...

By understanding the way that it works..has helped me to see it for what it is...

I think the males on this programme could not define this process..there was talk about 'caste' and people not knowing what it means and how it works...but no recognition that not everyone sees life like this, not everyone wants to believe that you should only marry into your caste..

Balbir,



Yep..There was some very such narrow views? I wondered why these men were so defensive,but then ....does it not work in their favour? They become the carriers of honor dont they?

Yes..people saying that they would disown their children, and that disowment is sometimes done by children in disowning their parents. How can people think that a child would disown their parents?...for instance if someone decides to leave home for good reason, its usually not supported by the parents..the idea of independance  is seen as wrong.

This stuff is difficult for many here to listen to...But some of us need to take the stuff up to help others...I regret that I could not have had the time to call...and say something

[a.c.]

BTW well done Saffron for getting the link up I'm listening now at last...

[a.c.]

I like this Sophia Hyatt lady....

[a.c.]

Ishmael. What a nasty guy, but sadly not un-typical. I can hardly listen to this, it's so hard to listen to the negative speakers...