Nihlas Programme on asian network today on disownment and mixed couples

[saffron]

 Thankyou for your comments ac...I can always see your side in this debate.

You will probably know my view..and perhpas that comes from my Life experience base ..in the kind of Ishmael comments amd JJ comments that weve seen in this programme. I fought against those and was disowned.

Many of the campaigning groups for whatever reasons dont want to go anywhere near the asian community for this reason..the sort of reason that I would not put myself out to them.

ac..its like many things..you have to know what the best thing is at the time of negotiating a plan with someone...I know that Im no good if I speak in english with a non- english speaking person , so I use the language they understand to make an important point. It really is as basic as that...

The asian network producers will be pleasing the the vast majority of honour based communities...campaigning groups know that they are not interested in their work or views aside of the odd interview on an issue ..which they sometimes sensationlize, other times attempt to provide a serious debate..and clearly not researched enough and not involving the right people enough.

You dont need to be asian to make a point to them, but... sometimes ...it helps that you can challenge them as a victim ie disowned woman..whatever...if you share some common aspects..ie in heritage, langauge,in that situation they are able to challenge..... that actually some things do happen in the asian community when honour based communities claim dont... its closer to home than..closer to their situation..and closer to their own experiences dare I say..we cant confuse this with not being heard as a white person..its more about working together to one avail.

Asian network is predominantly heard by asian listeners..so the BEEB should be listening to victims of certain situations from that group.

If that group is supported by a diverse group of people, and everyone is affected by those issues..they then ought to be listening to the group as a whole...Its step by step...sadly thats how things are...

[balbir]

Hi All
Its interesting how 'Izzat is used in families for control and is drummed into children from an early age as an everyday thing, and as a necessity of life.
Made me think about my own family and how in the early years it was used to stop me from doing all those things my western friends did....

However the difference is that i challenged my parents and in time they challenged themselves and must have got to a point where they realised that Izzat is bigger than the interpretations that asian parents put on it. Within the Sikh belief everyone is equal in gods eyes, therefore mixed marriages cannot be seen as shame.

What do other Sikh people out there think??

Balbir

[saffron]

Balbir..maybe others who are sikhs on here might comment...but coming from the same background I do believe that it is possible for parents to change and accept in time.

I think you were very brave, also I think you and I were not going to be honour killed, they 'let us go'...so my family would/might say?...long I didn't show my face again to them. Im supposed to be greatful  for that I understand according to some people Ive spoken to.

Ive always held belief that had my parents lived that they would have come round like your parents in time, even if they were born in the 1920's...my siblings however contd to remain stuanch in their treatment of me through keeping their izzat, making me out to be a shameful person and continuing to condemn me as a bad person.

Its true what you say about sikhism...its based on equality..fought for in a time of origin when there was horendous inequality...between hindus sikhs and muslims...and Yet practicing this towards mixed relationships is very difficult for many sikhs in our communities.

You have good parents..

[booktalker]

Interesting issues raised here. I'm in exactly that situation, as a white person... writing about another culture and how it affects peoples' lives. I am asked - what's it got to do with you? What do you know? Why are you trying to get into all that?

I'd love to be a spokesperson for these things, but the reaction I get from many Asian people is - it's not your business, keep out. You don't REALLY know about it. It's not that I'm afarid of these comments, it's just extremely hard to win respect for what you say - it doesn't carry weight or have authority coming from someone like me, in the eyes of the community members such as the ones on the radio station.

Perhaps the best route is for MT to show that "black and white can and do come together with a united front." We stand side by side because we are united by our views and experiences. Skin colour and culture are irrelevant, we're all human beings attempting to promote fairness, justice, sense, and hopefully to help a few people to become safer, happier and wiser along the way.

[saffron]

Exactly.

You will always get those people Booktalker, as I get white people who treat me differently to their own communities..by such things as...'Your not like one of them are you?'  and when Ive had to work double as hard as around the white professionlas around me ..that I have high expectations,but then they are not happy with people of my background who they walk over when they can..who are doing no different to them...

I dont have alot of time for this stuff ....with those who are prejudiced...I either get on with the things important to me, or imp to the ones that matter...

Sometimes you are very special in my eyes to be able to write about another culture as you have done...and as ac has done in raising the issues he has...
And...you will have others like us on here to support you ..important because their are asian people on here who can back you up ..so that those being critical of you will have to think twice...

[booktalker]

Thank you Saffron! I suppose what I was trying to do with the book was to get white people to look more closely at the issues as well, and I think many of them would be more likely to listen if it's presented by someone from their own culture, speaking in the same "language", one that's familiar to them. For heaven's sake, we're all PEOPLE in our hearts. Mind you, prejudice exists everywhere, even people of the same background. White English people can be extremely disparaging about Welsh, Irish...

(Talking of the Irish, I'm going to put up a new thread later on that might raise a wry smile...)

BTxxx

[saffron]

Youve clearly captured what I have been saying...youve spoken to people ..hundreds hopefully out there..from your own cultural base...a 'language' familiar to them...that to me has got to be worth it...

We are all people in our hearts...and thats why I say I believe that my parents would have come round..I hope that my siblings can be like these people too..and reach out to my children in time... even if not me.

Prejudice wil always exist..its world wide, its in civilizations from the begining of time...but there have also been those who have spoken out against this over time..wheather in slavery or in forced marriage...democracy...yes...womens rights, the rights of mixed couples...

That's what makes the difference..and there will always be those who have to fight their own battles without the help of others.

[Dev1975]

A lot of good points raised and it's interesting to see that this topic has sparked a healthy debate.  From a Sikh perspective, I was quite disheartened to hear some of the comments made by JJ as it shows that there are still these sorts of ridiculous attitudes held by people, predominantly (from the radio broadcast) by men.  By virtue of being a Sikh male, this sort of lumps me into the same category, which is horrifying to me as I do not want to be associated with people like him.

It stuns and saddens me that people will call themselves Sikh yet fail to practice one of the most basic and fundamental tenants of the faith, which is to show acceptance of all people.  If they can't even follow that then, IMO, they can't call themselves Sikh.  May be a bit of a harsh thing to say (I can't really call myself Sikh as I have had my split ends cut, I drink and I eat meat) but that's the way I feel.  I'd rather not define myself with any tag, I'm happy just being me.

I think it will take a long time (generations, perhaps...?) before Asians will be willing enough to confront a lot of these issues in a more head-on fashion.  For now, we'll just see more of the same blinkered views and "sweep it under the carpet" attitudes.

[chweetgurl]

Its shocking to hear hw much bitterness exists in our society.. The healthy debate on here is really good since we get to look into many options on turning around many social evil practices and beliefs existing in this day and age.

Coming from India where caste system, marrying out of religion or even for the very fact of choosing own partner is frowned upon. Its the same or even more stricter here which surprises me because people who have been here are exposed to different races and cultures. They should be more tolerant in my opinion, Just with me living for 18 months in this country has changed many perceptions i look people in a different light. But there is no reason whatsoever for people who lived majority of their life here.

I think we should voice it both from asian and an non asian point of view

[monome]

I finally managed to listen to the show. The ignorant male callers made me so angry. It's shocking what people can get away with on AN. Can you imagine a caller expressing such homophobic views on anyother national phone-in? I think Nihal is liberal at heart, at one point he did get angry and raise his voice at JJ, but then he composed himself.

As a regular listener of the show I think Nihal is aware of the irony that such casual racism is tolerated from callers, whereas a non-asian expressing such views would be instantly stigmatised.